Tuesday, October 9, 2007

Who Was Jesus?

According to the Bible, Jesus Christ was the only begotten son of the father. But what exactly does that mean? Did anyone ever explain this? What does begotten mean? Does that mean that the rest of us were not begotten? Were we all adopted or something? How can he be our older brother if he was begotten and we weren't?

I believe that Mormons are the only religion that believe in a pre-existence, where everyone lived with god. We all came here to earth to gain a body, which is one of the steps necessary to become a god and create our own worlds...

Mormons also believe that Jesus was Jehovah, the god of the Old Testament. But if Jesus hadn't been born yet and hadn't received a body, how could he be a god already? Doh!

And what is up with Jesus being our OLDER brother? In the scriptures, it is always the older brother who is the fuck up. Cain and Abel. Jacob and Esau. Laman and Nephi.

In the great council before life on earth, that everyone attended, god proposed a plan whereby all man might return to live with god, if they chose to obey. Satan proposed an alternate plan that would not give man his free agency but everyone would be forced to obey. All who agreed to satan's plan were born Mormon. Tudum, tch!

Why did we need to "return" to god? If we were already there, why did god want to send us all away when he knew that the less noble would never return? And they say "god loves you".

So Jesus, our older brother who really wasn't our brother, became a god even before he was born. The guy doesn't even follow his own rules.

And then Jesus, who is god, is born of a virgin. Was Jesus his own father? Did "god" come down and have sex with Mary? If so, he must have been married to her, but when did that happen? The Bible says Mary was not wed. So god fornicated with Mary, the damn hypocrite! Jesus turns out to be the bastard child of god and Mary.

According to Mormons, Jesus created the earth, not god. So if he created the earth, it is also logical to assume that he wrote all the natural laws that govern it, such as gravity, etc. Why would Jesus then come to earth and break all those laws that he wrote... flying around, walking on water, bringing the dead back to life.

That leads me to another question. How could Jesus create a physical world when he didn't even have a body? Isn't the main reason for having a body to feel pain, sadness, sorrow, joy, etc. How could Jesus have these emotions if he was the bodyless god of the Old Testament? Ex: God is angry with the wicked Israelites when they build the golden calf.

If we were sent here to feel joy, then I must assume that we couldn't feel joy before. Why then did everyone shout for joy when the plan of salvation was proposed? I thought we can't feel emotions as a spirit. How can satan be hateful and angry if he doesn't have a body?

And how could anyone, even a god, create a planet as massive as earth in only one week?

If god has a physical body, how come his "children" are all spirits? Why is the "holy spirit" a member of the godhead if you have to have a body to be a god? Who is the spirit anyway? What did he ever do to get to be one of the top-three? He just kinda shows up out of nowhere.

If god is perfect and god created me, how come I am not perfect? If I am not perfect and no one is, why does god command everyone to be perfect? I guess god wants to damn us all to hell. But just remember, he loves you, more than you can comprehend.

As you can see, the more you think about the ridiculous Mormon gospel, the more confusing it is. But god's house is a house of order, not confusion. HUH?

I'm still waiting for the lightning bolt to strike me dead.

In the name of cheese and rice, amen.

*UPDATE*

I have no doubt that Jesus was a great man and a great teacher. His words are worthy of study and application. My only problem with Christianity is the way they have turned this great teacher into a god. He was not a god, nor a son of god. He was a man. He has my respect as a man, but not as a god.

Just another evil apostate...

18 comments:

Julie said...

God gave man free will to choose from right and wrong. You have a choice to follow Him or reject Him. (obviously) He does not ask you to be perfect. He knows you will make mistakes. Which is why He died for OUR sins thousands of years ago: forgiveness. Before you were ever thought of, He knew you, and that you would sin, and He wanted to save our sinning souls from hell because He loves you.

Just another evil apostate... said...

Hi Julie,

I appreciate your belief in Jesus. I used to believe that very thing. In fact, I probably would have written something very similar to what you did.

I have now come to the understanding that there is no such thing as sin. And if Jesus loves me so much, why does he hide in heaven and never give me help or advice? Jesus is a myth and until he shows himself, I can never believe otherwise.

Didn't you read anything I wrote? I don't really need people bearing their testimonies to me. Why don't you address the things I wrote and show me where I am wrong?

Hint: just because the Bible says so, doesn't mean it's true. The Bible says you should kill your rebellious children and I really don't think you believe that, do you?

Find true freedom... free yourself from the ridiculous Jesus myth. I'm better off now than I ever have been before.

If you can show me PROOF that Jesus exists, then I will believe, not before.

Julie said...

I didn't bear my testimony to you. I said not one thing about my personal life. You made the point in this post that God asks people to be perfect. I addressed that point.
Which just proves my next comment - that you don't want proof, you just enjoy debating with people, which is fine. It could be called a "hobby", I suppose. It is entertaining to read your posts if nothing less. They don't offend me because you clearly just enjoy getting a rise out of believers. (commonplace) Of course this is your blog and your opinions so the blasphemous words you use could be screamed from the rafters, makes no difference.
When Jesus does try to speak to you, you really think you could hear him when you think things such as you wrote in your most recent post "FUCK YOU" etc. to God?
God looks at the heart. When words like that come out of your mouth, (well, in this case - typed...) why would God reveal himself to you? The Bible says He knocks on the door of your heart, but it is you who has to open that door. God is no fool. He does not go where He's not wanted. It is your heart's decision.
(Yep, I threw in a Bible reference. Sorry, if you really wanted proof, 2,000 yr. old text from men who personally knew Jesus word it much better than I ever could.)
And there is a little thing called FAITH. Who are you that God has to prove Himself to you? You should be living your life to prove yourself to Him.

Just another evil apostate... said...

You are correct in the statement that this blog is my hobby of sorts. It is 1) so I can get my feelings down in words and 2) help someone if they feel overwhelmed by the demands of Mormonism. It is not meant of offend believers although it sometimes does.

Sure, my words are blasphemous to the Christian god. But Christians are blasphemous to other religions, until GOD tells me he is offended, I ain't gonna worry about it.

If the only way Jesus can communicate with me is through the "spirit", which is impossible to differentiate from my own emotions, then no, I can't hear him. Until he speaks to me with his MOUTH, I can't hear him.

If god looks at the heart, then I will get an A+. Read my "Homeless on Temple Square" post and then tell me who god is looking at.

You're right, why would god reveal himself to me? I'm just an evil apostate who spent 30 YEARS fearing god and doing everything that was right. Even then he didn't have the common decency to reveal himself to me.

Why should I prove myself to god when there are a million and one different religions all claiming to have "the truth"? Shouldn't god be a little more clear and organized? Besides, science disproves religious superstitions time after time.

IF there is a god, he/she/it certainly does not interfere with our lives. Scientific experiments have shown that prayer does nothing. A belief in god does nothing. If I am going to believe in an ALL POWERFUL GOD, I need to see even a slight bit of evidence that he is even there.

As far as the Bible and those who wrote it, I would like to refer you to an article that shares some very interesting information about this book. It basically shows that the gospels were written by authors that had never personally known Jesus. In fact, their accounts contradict each other. Furthermore, they were written several hundred years after the fact. The only text that exists that records the life of Jesus is the Bible. There is no other record of him AT ALL! For such an important man, history sure forgot him quick! Please visit, Did Jesus Really Live? The article is rather long but quite educational.

Just another evil apostate... said...

Julie,

One other thing I should mention...

Don't get all hung up on the words that you preceive as bad such as FUCK. Did you read the entire paragraph that contained the F word? It explains very well why I chose to say that.

F - ornication
U - nder
C - onsent of the
K - ing

The word "fuck" comes from medieval war time when soldiers were commanded by the king to rape and impregnate women of the enemy in order breed them out and demoralize them.

Julie said...

Here are a couple "scientific" artifacts...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Dead+Sea+Scrolls&btnG=Google+Search


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Shroud+of+Turin&btnG=Search

Julie said...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Dead+Sea+
Scrolls&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Shroud+of+
Turin&btnG=Search

Just another evil apostate... said...

This is just a Google search. What exactly am I supposed to be looking for?

Julie said...

When you cut & paste it into the location bar, the page is a search on the Dead Sea Scrolls & the Shroud of Turin.

(Did the Google search because there are thousands of articles on each topic, so in lieu of choosing just one article, just linked it to them all!)

Anonymous said...

I can't remember all the questions you had, nor could I probably answer them all correctly. But I do know (Concerning the Spirit) that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, it is how he comunicates with us. He is mentioned in Gen. 1:2 "...and the spirit of God hovered over the waters." he is mentioned throughout scripture as the one who comunicates Gods word to us. There is God the Father, the creator of everything, then there is the Spirit of God which is how he communcates with us, and then there is Jesus the Son of God, yet also the son of man. The Old Testament represences the old covenant with God, where there was rules and ways of doing things, like then -only priest could go into the temples and give sacrifices, and if anyone disobeyed then God would simple punish them, but because over time and after much disobedience from his people, God sent his son Jesus, who is fully God and fully human, as only a sinless man could die for our sins, otherwise we could do it all ourselves. God sent Jesus to willingly bear the burden of every sin ever commited in the past presnt and future of every man that will ever live, and then to die for them as the sacrifice to God for there sins. Just like in the Old Testament they gave sacrifices to God as praise or for repentence, you see.. Jesus was the ulimate sacrifice because he was a sinless man, God, dieing for us.

You can beleive the bible, you know that it is the only book ever to have it through hundreds of translations and thousands of years without being fouled up... it is still the same as it was in the 1800's and the 1400's just as it was when it was written... plus in all 66 books in the old and new testament, written over the course of a thousand years, in some many different nations and with 40 different authors that lived in different times and places -the bible is still the most syncrinized book ever written. No philosephor or other religion can compare to such statistics. And the bible has been translated into more languages then any other book in the world. Why if it is so fake and untrue are there MILLIONS of people in the world that say otherwise? Not to mention all the people in the past!

You were saying about listening to the spirit speak... and not knowing if it was you or the spirit speaking. We as Christians deal with it everyday, knowing the difference from the spirit telling you to do something, or if it's you thinking something, or if the devil is playing mind games with you. The Bible says that if you draw near to God then he will draw near to you. He wouldn't invade your life unless you want him to, but in the same way he won't protect it either. We serve a jealous God and does not desire to share our hearts with anything or anyone else. The closer you are to God, in relationship not physicalness, the more you will better beable to interprete what he is saying. You hear him because you don't know him or even... he doesn't know you. We can't know him unless he wants us to know him, in the same way he doesn't have acess to our hearts unless we want him to have access to it. light and darkness cannot dwell in the same place. We have to choose to want to know God and as we learn and he teaches us we will better know him and understand his voice when he speaks.
Danja_ley@yahoo.com

Just another evil apostate... said...

Hey, you left a comment here for me as well.

Rather than respond to everything you said, I'll just tell you a quick story:

A few years ago I was sitting in a sunday school class and we were discussing Jesus. We talked about how he did this and that, and it suddenly occurred to me that it's all a fairy tale. Read the comment you left for me and tell me if it doesn't sound exactly like a superhero story.

I had this little "revelation" as a full blown believer. Ever since then it's been crystal clear to me that it's a story, nothing more.

Anonymous said...

He wouldn't be God if he was like everyone else. Isn't that why they crucified him on the cross, because they didn't understand what they were seeing with their own eyes...People being healed. The bible says it will be hard to follow him. That is one of the main reasons why his word says "many are called few are chosen" He opens the door and gives everyone a reason to follow him but it is up to that person to do it... You know it HAS to be your choice. Jesus also said that you must have faith like a child to enter into heaven... Like a child. He is your imaginary friend that you and millions of other people can feel and hear... jokes of the rest of the world and the devil plays the game well... keeping people like you angry and in disbelief... you're letting him win you know. And life is only good without God for a short time... then the devil has no reason to keep it good and will tear you up inside and out. There is a scripture is the bible that says "saten was designed as an angel, his name "lucifer" beautiful.. of course he can make everything APPEAR great and wonderful, but only for a short time. When you've come to the end of his game in your life you'll wonder what the heck went wrong... Well the first thing that went wrong for you my friend in that temple... The stuff you described about how mormonism works... ALOT of that is unbiblical and not what God is all about. When I said before that mormons call themselves christians but christians would never call themsleves mormon... the reason being is that christians believe mormons to be a form of cult. You're laughing now huh? The stuff you described the way the temple experience went down and how it was afterwards-that stuff describes a cult... It creeped my out just reading it. Hey so I have a paper in class do in a few weeks (cult paper) I will use mormonism as my cult and go learn all about it. Then we'll talk more. lol.. sound good? :)
-Danja

Just another evil apostate... said...

He wouldn't be God if he was like everyone else. Isn't that why they crucified him on the cross, because they didn't understand what they were seeing with their own eyes...People being healed. The bible says it will be hard to follow him. That is one of the main reasons why his word says "many are called few are chosen" He opens the door and gives everyone a reason to follow him but it is up to that person to do it... You know it HAS to be your choice. Jesus also said that you must have faith like a child to enter into heaven... Like a child. He is your imaginary friend that you and millions of other people can feel and hear... jokes of the rest of the world and the devil plays the game well... keeping people like you angry and in disbelief... you're letting him win you know. And life is only good without God for a short time... then the devil has no reason to keep it good and will tear you up inside and out. There is a scripture is the bible that says "saten was designed as an angel, his name "lucifer" beautiful.. of course he can make everything APPEAR great and wonderful, but only for a short time. When you've come to the end of his game in your life you'll wonder what the heck went wrong... Well the first thing that went wrong for you my friend in that temple... The stuff you described about how mormonism works... ALOT of that is unbiblical and not what God is all about. When I said before that mormons call themselves christians but christians would never call themsleves mormon... the reason being is that christians believe mormons to be a form of cult. You're laughing now huh? The stuff you described the way the temple experience went down and how it was afterwards-that stuff describes a cult... It creeped my out just reading it. Hey so I have a paper in class do in a few weeks (cult paper) I will use mormonism as my cult and go learn all about it. Then we'll talk more. lol.. sound good? :)
-Danja

Yea, it creeps me out just remembering it. That's why I've said that I'm so relieved to realize that I NEVER have to do it again.

Good luck with your paper. I've got several due soon as well as I'm in school too.

Mormonism is a very unique and complex religion/cult. And, yes, I have come to understand as well that it is indeed a cult. I've read several different experts' definition of a cult and the LDS church fits it to a tee, check mark after check mark.

If you need any info about the church for your research, I'll be happy to help you. I'm not sure if the info I post here will help much as it is geared more towards active members of the church. But I'll give you info where I can if you'd like.

One more thing. I don't see Christianity as a "choice". Either I choose to accept god or I choose to go to hell forever. That's not a choice, that's a dictatorship.

Anonymous said...

How is that a dictatorship? It's a choice, you either choose to serve God here and live in heaven with him or you choose to live for yourself here and not go to heaven... it's quite simple actually, yet hard. Humm...
-Danja

Just another evil apostate... said...

How is that a dictatorship? It's a choice, you either choose to serve God here and live in heaven with him or you choose to live for yourself here and not go to heaven... it's quite simple actually, yet hard. Humm...
-Danja

Right, even in a dictatorship you have a choice... obey or die. With god, it's not much different... obey or fry.

Or let me explain it this way. Say that a girl marries someone and it turns out he is a violent controller. He makes a set of rules and threatens that if she doesn't strictly obey them all, he will beat her severely. Technically, she has a choice. She can defy him and take her daily beating, or she can conform and do whatever he says. But really, what choice is there? The Christian god is no different.

Just another evil apostate... said...

This is interesting. Check this out. Julie left a comment here a few months ago: "He wanted to save our sinning souls from hell because He loves you."

If he wants to save us so bad, why does he damn us if we sin? If god is all powerful, why can't he just save us anyway?

It appears that god is not all powerful if one little teeny sin can stop him from saving me. So even if god wanted to save me, he can't if I don't accept him? Who made up that rule? And why is god forced to follow it? If god is god and wants to save us so bad, why doesn't he just do it?

Christianity doesn't make sense at all. God is supposed to be all powerful but clearly he is not. He can't even save me from one little sin. Since only I can do that, I am more powerful than god!

WindspriteM├╝sli said...

Everyone agreeing to satan's plan was born mormon ;)
That's good!
But wasn't the holy spirit the father of Jesus? Did the mormons turn the whole bible upside down?
By the way: I think that nobody should take the bible literally. But maybe you can behold is as some kind of storie, that tells a lot about the past.
Did you know, that Jesus used to be married?(Yeah, I've read Dan Brown, but that's not the point) Jesus really WAS married. There are sources, that prove it. Okay, that's weak, I know. But I'm sure, that already the catholic church deleted everything, that had to do with his wife in any way.
As far as I know, the roman emperor Contantin invented the catholic church, because he knew, if an emperor would say, that there is only one god and except god he(the emperor) is the highest of all, an empire would last longer. That failed. The roman empire still didn't fall, although it wasn't christianity to bring it to fall.
ugh. There's so much to write about whether god exists or not.

Mormon411 said...

Actually, that's not correct. According to Mormon doctrine, everyone who agreed with satan's plan was never allowed to be born. They became the evil spirits and demons that terrorize the world.

Many Mormons believe that god had actual sex with Mary, but this is just an opinion. However, that would mean she was no longer a virgin so that kind of self-defeats.

Even I believe that there are some good things we can learn from the Bible, but yes, that doesn't mean we should take every word literally.

Mormons don't talk about it much, but they also do believe he was married. This doctrine is much older than The DaVinci Code. Joseph Smith (the founder of Mormonism) himself even claimed to be a direct decendant of Jesus Christ.

Constantine pretty much created the Christian faith as we know it today. The popular images we see of Jesus are actually the face of Constantine. He was at the Council of Nicea where they decided on many of the basic doctrines and selected which book would make it into the official cannon.

I just find it ironic how the Romans first persecuted the Christians and then later, made it their official religion. The same church that burnt Joan of Arc at the stake for heresy, later made her a saint.