I'm a single guy and I have "needs" just like any other guy. So I posted a listing online looking for a playmate with the potential for a long term relationship.
One girl from Idaho responded - those Idaho girls are so naughty! She was LDS and horny as hell. She frequently sent me naked pictures and talked about all the naughty things she would do to me. We never met in person and all of our correspondence was done via texting.
Of course, me being me, - not trying to be a dick but really wanting to understand - I asked her how she justified her actions, with her LDS belief that any type of sexual activity is immoral. She kind of blew off the question, just stating that no one is perfect and that's what the atonement is for.
Ok, her attitude about that is certainly different than mine was. You don't plan to sin. If it happens, you repent. But if you actively put energy, money, thoughts, and actions into your plan, that just seems hypocritical.
So, of course, that lead to many religious discussions. As any typical believer, she refused to see any type of reason and just clung to her "I know it" defense. All the while, she was very interested in my experiences with other girls, and telling me some of hers with other men. She was a virgin. The most she had ever done was make out and do some petting (petting is a Mormon term for "touching each other's privates"). This, of course, is also forbidden by the Mormon church.
Our religious discussions continued, although I wouldn't really call them discussions. It was more like me asking questions, making statements, and her on the continual defense. I figured if she didn't want to talk about it, then she'd stop talking about it. I pointed out things like:
- If you have the truth, then there is no harm in questioning.
- We are both atheists; I just take it one god further than you do.
- Reality and common sense are beautiful (she claimed her views were common sense).
- And more.
She shared with me a story where she had met another guy recently and he had basically raped her with a sex toy. Of course, feeling awful about this for both the trauma of the event and the sin aspect of it, she received a priesthood blessing. Other than telling me, this was her little secret to add to the stash of secrets that she and most Mormons hide and carry around with them.
This blessing convinced her to be a good girl. No more naughty texting. No more meeting random dudes from the internet. In one of our religious discussions, I pointed out that a blessing is nothing more than a fortune teller. She responded that, no, it isn't because only a blessing could make her feel this good for this long. I disagree. People pay hundreds and thousands of dollars to fortune tellers. They wouldn't do that if it didn't make them feel good. But I digress.
In the end, she chose to remain in her prison and end our friendship. At one point she actually called me "spawn of Satan", accused me of "living in a hole", and told me that I was miserable and unhappy. Of course, I told her that she was a mental prisoner and a slave of a cult. Tit for tat, I guess.
She was so close to taking that scary step outside, and yet so far away. I don't think she'll ever get out. Her cognitive dissonance (when the mind is presented with two opposing ideas) was very strong. But religion won out. It almost always does. It has such a strong hold on people's minds. She wasn't ready to be set free.
It's like what Morpheus says to Neo in The Matrix movie: "I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it." I showed her the door. She chose her prison. Sad. But it's her life, her choice. I hope she finds her happiness but I doubt she ever will. She will go to church all her life wearing a fake smile to hide the myriad of secrets that she has buried deep within. This is what religion does to people.
"The best way to keep a people enslaved is to make them believe they are free."
10 comments:
I found your blog by accident and this post intrigued me.
I have never met this girl so I can't really compare experiences but, in some ways, that was me a couple of years ago (before I left Mormonism). Achingly lonely, perpetually disappointed with the limited Mormon dating pool, and unable to reconcile my needs for physical and emotional intimacy with the religious sanctions against them. It's enough to drive a person crazy.
Eventually my belief system collapsed and I made the break (thankfully). My point, I guess, is that you just never know. She might make the break one day. Or maybe not. There's just no way to know.
On another note, I've wondered if I could date a Mormon guy. As much as I'd like to think of myself as "open-minded," I think the answer's no. Too messy. And ultimately I want someone with a similar value system.
Interesting post.
Hi Jamie,
I think to a degree, this is everyone's story. As a normal young man, I struggled with the battle between my beliefs and my desires.
You're one of the few rare ones who ever get out. Most don't. As you know, it can be a scary journey to abandon that god you have feared all your life. To reject him is to chose damnation. It's not surprise that people stay.
I've wondered that too.. Could I date a Mormon girl? It's one of those things where you want to respect the person's right to believe, but you also want to share your discoveries with them. They, of course, then view you as trying to destroy their faith and drag them to hell with you.
Unless I met a really cool Mormon girl, I don't think I could do it. I too would much rather date someone with a similar outlook.
Its too bad I don't know any single ladies Mormon411- I know several single guys though.
What an interesting experience! I know there's a huge community of LDS swingers, peeps who have a garment fetish, etc. I've wondered how they justify what they do every Sunday when they go to church and take the sacrament.
If I were to ever become single I know I couldn't date a Mormon-
Good luck in your search! Wish I could send a sane lady your way. =)
Hi Heather!
If you ever become single, I better be the first person you tell!
I don't know how they justify it either. I couldn't live with the guilt. I guess "that's what the atonement is for."
The atonement- yes. Better to ask forgiveness than permission. =) I was never that way. I was one who never questioned authority- ever. If the big white man in leadership said x y and z were sins I believed them. To me it was better to just do what they say. After all- God was watching always.
Its gotta be hard to date this time around. So much has changed when it comes to meeting people. =/
It is so much harder. People have jobs, kids, responsibilities. When I got married, the plan was "Forever". Divorce and dating sucks but being unhappy with the wrong person sucks even more.
Longtime reader, first time poster here. I enjoyed your post, it made me think about how different my outlook is now compared to when I was a TBM.
I very much enjoy my life outside the Mormon confines. Morality in the church is defined so differently than it is outside.
I think I'm a fairly respectable, moral person with no skeletons. (outside the church anyway). If I were still Mormon I would be considered a sinner because I drink coffee, I love bourbon and, oh yeah, I'm gay and I am in a 20 year relationship with the woman I love.
Outside the church I have self respect and the respect of those around me. I am a smart, successful woman in a loving relationship with a beautiful family. I enjoy that respect so much more than the pity and prayers of those in the church.
If Ms. Sexty left the church she might possibly self destruct without a belief in something that will save her from herself. OR she might possibly gain respect and love for herself if she could leave the judgments of the church behind and realize that she is not a person with 'horrible secrets'.
It's a scary thing and I don't pretend to know what's best for others.
We are both anti-religious, Mormon411, I just take it one religion further than you do.
It doesn't do much good to know that Mormonism is false, when you don't know what the truth is.
Please don't get comfortable thinking that because you've left that cult behind, that you're now in a good place (honestly, it's hard to imagine you -would- think that, based on how you consistently describe your outlook).
One of the worst things that can happen to a person is not that they live most of their early life as an atheist, but as a religious person in a false religious system. That sets them up to make the convenient rejection of the truth, when they apostasize from that which is false, out of simple laziness and the arrogant assumption that they know best -- if you spent years being deceived, it simply doesn't make sense to trust yourself. You obviously have a poor track record of believing wrong things. What does make sense is to survey and study the wisdom of others (the Bible, and study tools available to help you).
The Gospel:
* God made you and requires things of you. These requirements are based on His nature--not arbitrary.
* your refusal to abide by His perfect law is called sin. Because anything not of God cannot be in God's presence, the direct consequence is eternal separation (eternal because God won't ever stop existing).
* Hell is the just punishment for an offense against an infinitely holy God. But God is not content to let you suffer it.
* He offers a way out. Somehow you must be made perfect, but the past can't be changed. If you were blameless, you could enter heaven.
* Since you are not blameless, you must be forgiven. But how--justice can't be ignored. Sin must be punished, but somehow you must escape the punishment.
* God therefore volunteered to take the infinite punishment of sin FOR YOU, so that justice could be met, and you could be blameless and free from the consequence of your sin.
* This is the God of the Christian Bible. It is salvation by grace. You can't do anything to earn it, but if you reject it, then you have no other alternative but to take the punishment for your sin, since Christ would not have paid your penalty.
The choice is exceedingly simple. Refusing it on the basis of petulantly insisting that God doesn't exist, because someone once hurt you, is foolishness.
Don't throw away your eternity because you were hurt by liars--their punishment is assured. But you don't need to let them "win" by taking you with them to hell.
Worth thinking about. Dwell on your personal salvation, rather than thinking about other people in Mormonism all the time. I guarantee you you can't save them, and you can do them no good until you are saved yourself.
This is your friendly neighborhood Christian testifying to the truth of Jesus Christ, signing off.
Just Jill,
Yes, it's true there are some people who really would self-destruct without that level of guidance.
Hakam Adam,
And how, exactly, do I describe my outlook? If "free from god" is what you are talking about, then you can just keep imagining that my life is a deep, dark hole, just like my Mormon ex-friend.
I focus on Mormonism because it's what I know and what I can help people understand and escape from.
I am not here to debate with anyone. I am here to help people who are trapped in a mind prison and are searching for higher meaning than just old myths of talking snakes, magic apples, rib-spawning women, angry gods, and the such.
I know you're trying to help, but it's not needed. I don't need your god and your Jesus. I don't need to be told that "trusting myself" is a bad thing. Really, your "truth" is as real to me as Peter Pan is to you.
Hello, I am new here and need some help/advice.
I live in a beautiful house with my SO and we have rooms for two other housemates. Recently, while searching for a new housemate, a woman answered our ad, came over for an interview and now she is living with us. I did not want her to move in, I was uncomfortable. We found out that she is an escapee of the Mormon church. I had her pegged even before she came to the interview! It was a comment she made which seemed inapropriate. She has told ky BF and other male housemate about her failed marriages. I have treated her with kindness and respect yet the day she moved in, she folded my BF's laundry! I thanked her and told her to please not do that again but tell me and I will take care of it and she made a comment that, yeah, it was kind of personal. Then I found out that she asked my BF about making curtains for the living room to replace the ones which were there... did she ask me? No. Again, I approached her and told her that me and my BF would buy the curtains. She said something about trusting that I had good taste... Seems very passive aggressive, very disrespectful and shows lack of boundaries. She always has a "deer in the headlights" demeanor. She told my BF that she is non confrontational. My BF is not acknowledging my concerns, though he did admit that she lacks good boundaries. I am praying that she leaves, but in the meantime I am trying to neutralize her presence. Any support, encouragement, advice would help tremendously, thank you!
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