Saturday, October 4, 2008

Silly Mormon Ideas

As a TBM, I knew of a few of the issues with Mormonism but I did see them as problems. For example, I knew that the temple ceremony was very similar to the mason ceremony. But it didn't bother me because there was an answer.

The typical Mormon answer to this problem is quite simple. The masons have been around for several thousands of years and they preserved the sacred ceremony from the time of Solomon's temple. It had been handed down over thousands of years and had been slightly corrupted. Joseph Smith restored the original version, so naturally it would be similar to the masons...

This is the answer a Mormon will give and I accepted it perfectly myself. It was an answer to the problem and so there was no need to worry. Many Mormons accept the simple answer and take it on faith, without giving it a second thought. Since the problem was so easily solved, the church must be true.

Any explanation, to a Mormon, is good enough. As long as the end result is that the church is true, then it doesn't really matter what that explanation is.

I once heard a FPR (Faith Promoting Rumor) that an Egyptian mummy had been found and it was entombed wearing temple garments. I can't remember where I heard this crazy story, but I really believed it. A mummy was found wearing all the right marks in all the right places. I accepted it as proof that the church was true without ever verifying any of it.

Nothing like a good FPR and a quick and simple explanation. Mormons suck it up and then spread it around.

I know one Mormon with a hilarious conspiracy theory! He thinks that Satan has influenced all the lawmakers to require car seats for children in order to limit the size of families! If you have 15 kids, you can't fit them all in a mini-van if they all have to be in car seats! Damn that Satan! What a sneaky fellow!

I used to actually think that I would never have to die. I had heard lots of rumors of people getting their patriarchial blessings stating that Jesus would return during their lifetimes. Lots of Mormons have heard this and so they really think the end is near. But anyway, I used to believe that as soon as Jesus appeared, I would be "twinkled" (as the Mormons like to call it), which means that I would be instantly transformed into an immortal being. Of course, I realize now that it is completely absurd. Jesus isn't coming. I wonder what their excuse will be in 100 years from now when all those people who have been promised that they will be alive when Jesus comes are dead and still no Jesus.

Let's see...I'm trying to think of any other silly ideas I used to have in my Mormon mind...

Ah, the idea that invisible Nephite soldiers guard the temple night and day! Actual soldiers with swords and armor stand at the temple doors and protect it. Absurd...

The missing tribe of people who live somewhere in the north. And they are still missing, even though we have all sorts of technology. There is a whole civilization of people out there somewhere to the north. And eventually they will show up.

The three Nephites... Some people might not know what that is all about. In the Book of Mormon, there were three Nephites who, when asked by Jesus what they wanted, chose to become immortal and stay on earth to prepare it for the second coming. (See 3 Nephi, chapter 28). You will occassionally hear a Mormon telling a story about how some stranger helped them and it was probably one of the three Nephites. The Nephites wander around doing good deeds but no one ever really sees them. They show up here and there and then disappear again. If you got help from one of the three Nephites, then you are really cool! It kind of makes you wonder where they were during the great battle in which all the Nephites were wiped out!?!? They just kind of sat back and watched everyone get slaughtered, not even bothering to help out. You sure could do a lot of damage if you were immortal!

So as you can see, Mormonism is full of rumors and nonsense. If the true church has been restored, then why do the three Nephites still hide? Why don't they come out and publically testify about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon? After all, that is why Jesus let them live forever! If that ever happened, people would join the church by the thousands, which, again, was their purpose for being granted immortality. So where are they? Why don't they speak in General Conference?

Speaking of GC, it is starting tomorrow (today actually as it is just after 2 in the morning). I'll be watching for the three Nephites! If they actually show up, I'll literally crawl to the bishop's office and beg to be forgiven for my evilness! If they don't show up, then it will be just another amazing lack of anything real in the goofy Mormon religion.

Mormons, you don't have the priesthood. You don't have the ability to bring people back from the dead or to even heal them. If you stop and think about it, you'll realize that you've never actually seen anything that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that your so-called priesthood is real.

There were no golden plates. Pretty convenient for good old Joe how they are just completely non-existant and no one really ever saw them. I know, I know, Moroni took them into heaven... Like I said, pretty convenient.

As a TBM, I did used to wonder why we don't really see miracles anymore. They happened all the time in the Bible and the Book of Mormon. They happened all the time in Joseph Smith's time. But for some reason, we never see any now. We read and hear about them all time but how come we never actually get to see one ourselves?

It's all bunch of brainwashing and absurd ideas. None of it has any backing or evidence of any kind. But for some reason, they hear a story and suck it up. I know someone who was visited by the three Nephites! I got a blessing and now am all better! I paid tithing and a miracle happened. It's all just folklore, superstition, and the lack of any real mental processing...

I'm signing off for now.


Geoff said...

Hello Friend! I agree with you only in the fact that there is some “sensationalism” in our Church and some stories are actually very humorous. But it is not the rank and file members belief of those stories that make them stay in the Church. It is faith in The Lord Jesus Christ that most Mormons are Mormons, and we strive to quietly live Christ teachings day after day without any fanfare, without any of our faith being based on “FPR (Faith Promoting Rumors)” as you call them.

Can I suggest that you watch General Conference today and tomorrow (October 4th & 5th) or see it on the archives at That is what we believe. Please don't confuse FPRs with faith promoting stories. Most people are able to tell the difference using basic common sense. Most Mormons know the difference between “FPRs” and a faith promoting stories. Most Mormons I know laugh out loud as I do when they hear an FPR. Mormons I know don't base their testimonies on sensationalism. Perhaps we could follow Paul's counsel. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” Thes. 5: 21. A little common sense can go a long way towards fixing things. I could care less if the three Nephites visited anyone. Not relevant to my salvation. My testimony is not anchored to whether or not its true.

Sounds like perhaps you were”Suckered” for basing your testimony on such ridiculous stories that have no doctrinal basis or relevance. As predicted however by the prophets : “That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Eph. 4: 14 and

“But now, behold, they are led about by Satan, even as chaff is driven before the wind, or as a vessel is tossed about upon the waves, without sail or anchor, or without anything wherewith to steer her; and even as she is, so are they. Mormon 5:18

Hey my friend, people tell lies and and sometimes truth becomes fiction because someone wanted to embellish it thinking it may help someone join the church. That is wrong but probably can be detected by most people with common sense. The real truth is that the Gospel of Jesus Christ does not need any embellishing. And is not hard to understand.

I wish you could reconsider your own testimony. Surly you didn't join the church originally because of such stupid stories.

Could I please make a comment off this subject. This is an observation I have made over the years of those, for whatever the reason, have left the church. Some left because their personal conduct became of such that it was less than what they had been taught by the Church. They leave citing a multitude of reasons, but mostly disclaiming the doctrines for various reasons. This is a question that I am not asking you to answer to me or anyone else but yourself. “Is your personal conduct better or worse than it was before you left the church?

Thanks for your input from your blog. I hope you have found continued happiness and I hope you would consider re-thing your current situation and always know the the Church always will welcome you back. The devil tells you otherwise but he is a lier.


Geoff Gentry

PS: Have you heard the one about “the birds trapped in the cage”?

DettriuS said...

I think it's the intent is to have faith and keep a good cause alive and progressive in their minds why people promote stories. Why do you think the history of Christ was so widely spread, even by the Jews, during Christ's life? People want it to be true, they want hope. And I agree with geoff that I find most mormons to not actually base their convictions off of FPRs, but rather a spiritual experience in which they felt that God had told them it was true. I know Evangelists too who base their convictions off of group experiences where there seems to be an intense spiritual experience. You can criticize each group for their beliefs, but it's admirable that these people even have convictions against the odds.

As for the way you're going to prove mormons wrong, I would suggest something not so demanding. You seem to think that a single visible experience will change your heart. In my experience, people who join a religion based on visual stimulus aren't strong in their convictions, if they have any beyond the first few days. In any Christ-based religion, as the bible says, you need to ask and you'll receive. You can never trust people or rumors completely, because their reasons are their own, and their speech reveals their convictions. If you're basing your opinions on other people convictions, you might be in trouble. God is the only one you can base your convictions off of.

Seth R. said...

Yup, life is just one big sack of monkey turds. And I'm an idiot for not realizing it.

Thanks for the tip.

DettiuS said...

LOL, Seth, who was that in response to?

Seth R. said...

The original post.

Mormon411 said...

Hello everyone,thanks for your comments.

If I gave the impression that Mormons base their testimonies on FPR's, that was not my intention. I know that they base it on praying and the special feelings they get. They use FPR's to re-inforce their testimonies.

I sat down and turned on Conference today. Made it about a half hour before I was sound asleep on the couch! LOL. I listened to Joseph B. Wirthlin talk about making the most out of your adversities. Not bad advice. Then, I forget who, talked talked about angels. I don't believe in angels as I've never seen one and just have to take it on faith that anyone has.

Also, if I made it sound like I based my testimony on FPR's alone, then that was also unintentional. Sure, I gobbled them up just like everyone else, but it surely wasn't my foundation.

I don't mind answering your question publically. Is my personal conduct better or worse since leaving the church? I would have to say that it's exactly the same... I am the same person I was before. I believe in being kind, giving service, etc. I just don't go to church anymore. Occassionally I go out and have a drink with a buddy, but I always do it responsibly. Yes, my personal beliefs have changed, and some would argue that my conduct is worse because I now enjoy an occassional alcoholic drink, but I've never pushed it past legal limits and have always made sure that I had a designated driver. They say that being drunk brings out your true personality... I've never been outright drunk, but I've been buzzed and I actually become quite cheerful!

I'm sure the church would be happy to take me back... after a dozen or so worthiness interviews and massive intrusions into my personal life. Thanks, but no thanks. I can't even describe how much I've loved not having to account myself to the bishop every couple of months. I do not miss PPI's, TR interviews, tithing settlement, guilt trips for not fulfilling the 101 commandments, etc.

If it works for you, then great. I've said it many times. But it's not for me.

Dettrius, as much as the church tries to convinve you that a "witness of the spirit" is more powerful than anything you will ever see with your eyes, I just can't buy it. If I could see an angel, or the gold plates, or something... anything to show that Joe wasn't full of crap, then yes, it would be all I would need. If the three Nephites showed up at General Conference (and it could be verified that they were indeed 2000 years old), then I would literally crawl back to church. I would become the most loyal follower they have. But until there is anything concrete, I just can't do it. I can't base my entire belief system on a feeling. My past experience tells me that my feelings are a poor way to judge the validity of something.

Hi Seth, welcome back. I'm not sure what you mean by that comment.

Seth R. said...

Neither am I entirely, so don't worry about it.

Long Ben Avery said...

"My testimony is not anchored to whether or not its true"

I think this quotation is the best evidence for your thesis that The LDS members don't really use critical thinking!

Long Ben Avery said...

I'm only 2 years into your Blog, but I'd be very grateful for an explanation of "testimony".

Mormon411 said...

I must have written about it somewhere. In fact, I'm sure I have.

Testimony: in Mormon terms is a person's personal conviction that the church is true.

It is the safety net of Mormonism. If you cant beat them debating, just bear your testimony. They think it will make you go into a frenzy to join the church.

I could go on and on but I'm sure you will find lots about it as you keep reading.