Wednesday, February 24, 2010

All About Those Evil, Angry, Bitter, and Hateful Apostates

What is an apostate?

Here's the definition as a die-hard Mormon explains:

"Apostates: individuals who once had a testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel, but through disobedience and sin, fell from grace. These individuals oppose Joseph Smith and the servants of God because the existence of such oracles is a constant reminder that they chose darkness over light. Their opposition is the fruit of their bitterness and hatred." ~ Greg West of SPAMLDS (and Greg can't figure out why no one likes him)

This definition is FULL of stereotyping and 90% of it is not true at all. It assumes that ALL apostates:
  • left because of disobedience and sin.
  • oppose Joseph Smith.
  • still know the church is true but fight it anyway because they prefer darkness.
  • are full of bitterness and hatred.

Let's correct those extremely misleading assumptions:

  • A very select few leave the church because of sin. 99% leave the church because they discovered that the church has been dishonest with them.
  • They don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. Some oppose him. Some just forget about him.
  • People don't leave the church and fight against it because they still know it's true. That's absolutely absurd and is nothing but a testament to the churchs' untrue propaganda about those who leave. Those who do fight against it do so because of the overwhelming evidence that shows it's not true.
  • Some apostates are bitter. But wouldn't you be too if you discovered that your entire life was based upon a deliberate lie? 99% of apostates do not hate. The few that do, unfortunately, are the ones that the church makes examples of.
Here is the definition of an apostate as given by an ACTUAL "apostate":

Apostate: an individual who once believed in the truthfulness of the LDS gospel, but through study and soul searching, was made aware that the things the church claims are true are actually half-truths and the white-washed version of their history. These individuals realize that Joseph Smith was very charismatic and had an elaborate imagination. They oppose him because they found out that he was involved with magic, money digging, glass looking, and all the pussy he could get his hands on. The existence of LDS leaders is a constant reminder that they chose truth over myth and reality over fantasy. Those who choose to publicly criticize the church are fueled by the desire to share what they have learned with their friends and family. The only bitterness they feel is knowing that the LDS church purposefully misled them. The only anger they feel is knowing that the LDS church continues to spread it's lies as the ultimate and literal truth.

The very fact that these extreme beliefs exist about so-called "apostates" is a testament to the lies that LDS, Inc. continues to promote. They do it to scare their members into conformity. If you paint the apostate in evil, hateful, angry colors, then your members will be manipulated into continued servitude.

Its funny to me how Mormons are so adamant that you learn about the church only from them. Then they turn around and claim to be the experts on EVERYONE who leaves the church. How many TBM's used to be ex-Mormon? Very, very few. So do they really know all about our motives and feelings? Do they KNOW our thoughts and intents? They sure think they do!

Have you ever noticed that in Mormonism, the most extreme punishments and penalties are reserved EXCLUSIVELY for those who fall away? Being a Son-of-Perdition and cast into outer darkness is only for apostates. Leaving the church (denying the spirit) is the only sin that is unforgiveable. If you leave the church, YOU WILL BECOME FULL OF HATE, ANGER, AND BITTERNESS. You will still know the church is true, but you will be driven by some unseen power that takes away your free will and makes you fight against the "light". And you will hate yourself because you know you are fighting against the truth. You try to escape this self-loathing by sinning. But that sin only makes you hate yourself more and you get caught in this spiral effect that multiplies again and again. Hate adds to sin. Sin adds to hate. And it goes on and on.

This is reality to a Mormon. Sure fucked up, isn't it?

Have you ever known an ex-Mormon? Does the description above even remotely describe what they are like? If you live in the SLC area, you are probably exposed to ex-Mormons on a daily basis. Chances are, you don't even know they used to be Mormon. So if ALL ex-Mormons are so full of bitterness, hate, and anger, how come you can't even pick them out from the crowd? You can't pick them out because THEY ARE NORMAL PEOPLE! And even if you can't pick them out based upon their behaviour, you should be able to detect them by warning from the spirit, right? Yet, I am around faithful Mormons every day and they are completely unaware that I am an ex-Mormon and that I am involved in the online ex-Mormon community. The spirit, which supposedly warns of danger, can't even detect an evil, angry, bitter ex-Mormon.

That should tell you right there, that the church spreads hate and lies about those who fall away. It's just another example of their blatant dishonesty and is simply another reason why our non-belief in its truthfulness is reinforced. For a church that is supposedly lead by Jesus, it sure puts out a lot of hate propaganda against those who leave.

And since your so-called "spirit" can't even detect the "apostates" that are all around you, you might want to question if it even works at all. I mean, if an apostate is so dangerous and threatening to your eternal salvation, then the spirit should warn you to get the hell away. But since it doesn't, it becomes obvious that your posession of the "spirit" is just another LDS lie.

Lie Deceive Subterfuge


Seth R. said...

Just so you know...

If you check out Greg's website, he's got a post up announcing that he's getting out of the online debate area to a large extent.

So attacking him as a representative of the LDS Church or its membership probably isn't going to yield you much discussion.

Nor is painting all LDS as lying brainwashed hateful people going to encourage nicer Mormons to talk to you either.

Most of them are going to figure that there's no point in talking to you until you've worked out all your anger issues and are willing to talk to Mormons without angry name-calling.

At least, that's how I feel about your last few posts.

I could try to talk to you. But I'd probably just get called a "fucking brainwashed idiot."

I've got better things to do with my time than act as your therapeutic punching bag. I imagine many other reasonable Mormons would feel the same way.

Mormon411 said...

I thought we were past the name-calling thing. I would ask you to show me where I have been calling angry names, but nevermind... I don't want to know.

In reading over my latest posts, I'm not sure where I have painted "all LDS as lying brainwashed hateful people."

So, engage me if you wish. Or not. It's up to you. I'm going to keep blogging whatever comes to mind and I'll say it however it comes out on my keyboard. If you don't like it, I won't be offended if you don't stick around.

Seth R. said...

Look, I'm just saying what I felt from the last few posts. I just got a definite feeling that if I tried to debate you on any of those issues, I'd get cyber-punched for it. They were very angry posts.

Mormon411 said...

If I am angry about anything, it is the label of "evil, angry, hateful, and bitter" that the LDS church puts on those who leave. I have a right to defend myself from untrue propaganda, just the same as you do.

Paul said...

"Its funny to me how Mormons are so adamant that you learn about the church only from them. Then they turn around and claim to be the experts on EVERYONE who leaves the church. How many TBM's used to be ex-Mormon? Very, very few. So do they really know all about our motives and feelings? Do they KNOW our thoughts and intents? They sure think they do!"

^^That paragraph was pure win! I'm going to have to use that next time I hear an apostate being judged.

However I have to say that Seth has a point, I am really interested in reading your material but the language is hard to take. I appreciate you trying to be candid in your writing style but would also appreciate it if the obscenities/crude language could be toned down...

I would like to continue reading your material and probably will continue to do so regardless, this is just a hopeful recommendation from a thankful reader.


Mormon411 said...

It's funny because I looked back over the last few posts and I just don't see it they way you guys are describing.

However, I'm not here to offend people because that is just pointless. So if the general consensus is to tone it down, then I will. In fact, I realize that if a Mormon comes across this blog and sees a lot of cuss words, then they are going to be reinforced in their position that we are all "evil and angry".

So I'll take your recommendation to heart and tone it down. I can't promise that I'll never swear (because sometimes I really get excited about what I'm writing) but I'll tone it down and we'll see if it generates a more positive response.

Paul said...

No no no, Offend people as much as you can! Just make sure it's for the right reasons. :)

I do think you will be able to reach more people by just being more amiable in your choice of words. Don't tone your message or emotions down at all, but a mere substitution of a "darn" or "freak" would do quite nicely ;)

My main reason for even suggesting it was for me to be able to suggest your blog to others, seeing as most of my influence is Christian/Mormon, crude language would serve as a deterrent if nothing else.

Keep your positions and emotions as raw as possible and speak with conviction. I thoroughly enjoy your writing style.


Riin said...

I just found your blog and absolutely love it! I was converted into Mormonism when I was 15 (my sister and her family were mormons) and stopped going to church a little more than a year ago. I'm an atheist now too but it doesn't mean that I'm bitter and hate everyone. On the contrary, I love my family and I love my Mormon friends. It's stupid how things have to be black and white. I know some very bitter Mormons and very happy atheists as well as happy Mormons and bitter atheists.

Mormon411 said...

Hi Riin,

Welcome and I'm glad you like the blog. I agree that it's sad that so much stereotyping and mis-information gets passed. Both sides are guilty of it, as I've done it myself. But we should all strive to be more open minded and better listeners.