Atheism: Denying the Undeniable, Part 1

For a while now, I have been having an email exchange with a fellow who calls himself "yasir". He is a Muslim and he is trying desperately to convert my lost soul to Islam, Allah, and the Qu'ran. Just today I received an article from him entitled Atheism: Denying the Undeniable

This shit is worse than Mormonism! I am going to include bits and pieces from the article and then comment about it. My comments will appear italicised.

Atheists might assert that they don’t acknowledge the existence of God, but the view of some Christians and all Muslims is that at some level even the confirmed Atheist affirms God’s presence. The innate but neglected awareness of God typically surfaces in Atheist consciousness only in times of severe stress, as exemplified by the World War II quote “There are no Atheists in a fox-hole.”

Some Christians and all Muslims assert that even atheists believe in god on some deep level. Yes, just like all believers really are atheists at heart. Who are these people to claim that they know what is in someone elses heart? I say "goddamnit" or "Oh my god," sometimes when I am stressed, but that doesn't mean I believe in god.

Undeniably there are times -- whether during the agonizing days of a lingering illness, the seemingly eternal moments of a violent and humiliating mugging, or the split second of anticipating the impact of an imminent car crash -- when all mankind recognize the reality of human fragility and the lack of human control over destiny. Who does a person beseech for help in such circumstances other than The Creator? Such moments of desperation should remind every person, from the religious scholar to the professed Atheist, of the dependence of mankind upon a reality far greater than our own meager human selves.

I'm not even sure how to word what I am thinking. Why is it that "god", according to believers, reminds people that he is in control by making our lives go to hell? Sure, there are some things in the world that are beyond our control, but that doesn't mean that god is orchestrating it all. If I jump off a cliff, I can't stop gravity from pulling me to the ground, but I CAN choose to not jump. I can't prevent a driver in another car from slamming into me, but I can chose to not ride in a car. I can't prevent an illness from making me sick, but I can improve my health by eating right and taking care of my body. I am not "dependent" on god for anything. A belief in god doesn't pay my bills, doesn't put food on the table, and doesn't cause or prevent bad things from happening. Similarly, a non-belief in god doesn't cause those things either.

In such moments of distress, when all human efforts have failed and no element of material existence can be foreseen to provide comfort or rescue, Whom else will a person instinctively call upon? In such moments of trial, how many stress-induced appeals are made to God, complete with promises of lifelong fidelity?

I am sure that in many cases, people do call upon god in such times. BUT that doesn't make him real. A car crash is a car crash. It happens to believers and non-believers alike. What is the difference then? To an atheist, none. In the mind of a believer, a car wreck is a trial of faith for believers or a wakeup call for atheists. How about you just call it what it is and leave your imaginary friend out of it? Again I ask, why do you believe that god reminds us of his awesome power by using it to make our lives miserable?

No doubt, the day of greatest affliction will be the Day of Judgement, and a person would be unfortunate to be in the position of acknowledging the existence of God for the first time on that day.

Wow, so you are telling me that your merciful god will make everyones life hellishly miserable on judgement day and their only crime is that they failed to acknowledge his awesomeness? This is not a god I will ever worship. This god is a tyrant. I visited the sick; I helped the needy. But fuck all of that! I didn't grovel at his feet and kiss his ass up one side and down the other and for that, I am hell bound. Your "merciful" god sucks.

The thoughtful Atheist, full of skepticism but fearful of the possibility of the existence of God and a Day of Judgement, may wish to consider the ‘prayer of the skeptic,’ as follows: “O Lord--if there is a Lord, Save my soul--if I have a soul.”

Hey they finally got something right! "Thoughtful". Atheists think and therefore do not believe. Believers who think, don't stay believers for very long. As far as the "save me" prayer, I've tried it and nothing, absolutely nothing, happened. Secondly, I am not "fearful" that there might be a god. It is a myth and I am no more afraid of your god than you are of Zeus. BTW, have you ever noticed how similar the names "Zeus" and "Jesus" are? Just an observation. But I'm sure that it has nothing, whatsoever, to do with mythology.

In the face of skepticism blocking belief, how can a person go wrong with the above prayer? Should Atheists remain upon disbelief, they will be no worse off than before; should belief follow a sincere appeal, Thomas Jefferson had the following to say: “If you find reason to believe there is a God, a consciousness that you are acting under His eye, and that He approves you, will be a vast additional incitement; if that there be a future state, the hope of a happy existence in that increases the appetite to deserve it…”

How can a person go wrong with the above prayer? They can't go right or wrong... they are just words. I gave "god" a real, sincere chance and, as expected, nothing. Other than the threat of going to hell, I have no reason to believe. And since hell is just a made up place, I have no reason to believe in that either.

The suggestion can be made that if an individual doesn’t see the evidence of God in the magnificence of His creation, they would be well advised to take another look. Worthy of contemplation is the fact that even the lowest elements of God’s creation, though perhaps ordinary works in His terms, are miracles in ours. Take the example of as tiny an animal as a spider. Does anybody really believe that such an extraordinarily intricate creature evolved from primordial soup?

Yes, they do. And the reason they do is because of this little thing called "evidence". Atheists marvel at the awesomeness of this world too, but they don't see a designer. There is no doubt that the world is truly an incredible place and the diversity and complexity of life is mind boggling. It would be easy for the uneducated mind to invent a god, a designer. But the evidence for a designer just isn't there. Oh sure, religion will come up with it's pathetic attempts to refute evolution, and even claim that "more and more scientists are starting to doubt evolution" but this is all propaganda, wishful thinking, and mis-information. The scientific community views evolution as a fact just as much as the fact that atoms are the basic components of all the elements.

And yet, mankind elevates itself to the heights of arrogance. A moment’s reflection should incline human hearts to humility. Look at a building and a person thinks of the architect, at a sculpture and a person instantly comprehends an artist. But examine the elegant intricacies of creation, from the complexity and balance of nuclear particle physics to the uncharted vastness of space, and a person conceives of…nothing? Surrounded by a world of synchronous complexities, we as mankind cannot even assemble the wing of a gnat. And yet the entire World and all the Universe exists in a state of perfect orchestration as a product of random accidents which molded cosmic chaos into balanced perfection? Some vote chance, others, creation.

The mere fact that this author has claimed that scientists believe it all happened by pure chance is a statement of his own ignorance. He is trying to refute evolution without even knowing what it is. It was not random chance, and evolutionists do not claim that it was. Besides, if they are going to argue that complexity necessitates a designer, shouldn't the designer also need to have a designer? Their god is allegedly the ultimate in complexity but where is his designer? So if they are going to use the argument from complexity, they should apply it to themselves as well.

Arrogance? So now it is arrogance to look at evidence and use that evidence to determine your belief? Let me ask you this: Do you enjoy being able to use email to send me your "god" crap? Do you enjoy being able to climb into a car and travel at speeds 50 times faster than traveling on foot? Do you enjoy being able to board an aircraft and travel to the other side of the earth in less than a day? Do you enjoy being able to summon water from the walls of your home with just a twist of your wrist? Do you enjoy being able to have your home illuminated in bright light without a fire even in the middle of the darkest night? If so, THANK AN ARROGANT SCIENTIST! You live in more luxury and comfort than the richest man in the world 200 years ago and you have nothing but science to thank for it. What progress has religion made besides more violence, more ignorance, and more suppression of the human mind?

Denying the undeniable. What a statement. It is undeniable that the sky is blue. It is undeniable that sugar tastes good. That a god exists... that is very deniable!

Religion is Bad for Society According to New Study

There is now another good reason to take Sunday off...

According to recent studies, religion is bad for society. This completely contradicts the idea that in order for a society to be successful, it must be god-fearing.

This study has shown an indirect relationship* to how religious a society is and how functional it is. A more functional society tends to have lower murder rates, lower suicide rates, fewer people in prison, lower crime, fewer STD's and teen pregnancies, abortions, divorces, etc.

*An indirect relationship is a relationship where as one thing goes up, the other thing goes down, as opposed to a direct relationship where as one thing goes up or down, the other thing does as well. In this case, as religion goes up, functionality goes down.

This study has found that those societies, such as the United States, who are highly religious, tend to be the most dysfunctional. The less religious a society is, like Japan, the more functional it is.

Gregory S. Paul is the man in charge of this study.

Is this just wishful thinking on the part of atheists? No, atheists don't engage in wishful thinking. This study is a look at the raw numbers of how religious a society is compared to its functionality. The results: more religion = less functional.

Interesting. The United States, which is full of Christians who hate abortion, is ranked the highest in the world for abortions. Let the data speak for itself. This graph shows that the more a society believes in god (the dot further out to the right) the less functional it is. Notice the US. It is the far-most right dot on the graph meaning it is the most religious. Notice, however, it is the LOWEST in terms of functionality. You will also notice that the societies on this graph that are the least religious are the MOST functional.




http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1001-06.htm

and

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-americans-still-dislike-atheists/2011/02/18/AFqgnwGF_story.html/

and

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.retirement/2005-09/msg03726.html

and

http://www.chrisvschris.com/religion-is-bad-for-society/

Christopher Hitchens Dies

I first heard of Christopher Hitchens a few years ago when I found and read his book, God Is Not Great.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=20111217_13_A23_CUTLIN229321&rss_lnk=1

I read on Facebook today of his passing. He had been battling cancer. We need more people who are willing to say it how it is!



Christopher Hitchens will be missed.

Why Evolution Is True

This video is just short of an hour long and Jerry Coyne provides some very compelling evidence that evolution is a fact.

Creationists have long dwelt on the argument that "transitional forms" don't exist in the fossil record and that Charles Darwin himself admitted that if none could be found, then his theory was incorrect. Well, this video ought to silence them once and for all!

If humans did not share a common ancestory with birds, why do we have non-functional genes for yolk? Why does a human embryo have an empty yolk sac for a short period of time?

Towards the end of his presentation, Jerry shares some scary statistics. The first shows a strong negative correlation between the general acceptance of Darwins theory of evolution and religion. The second, even worse, shows that societies who have a stong belief in god tend to be more dysfunctional, with the United States being one of the worse!

This is great stuff! Religion is poison not only to the mind, but also to the society.

I am going to ask that everyone please refrain from leaving comments until you have completely watched this video. If you are pro-creation, try and refute the evidence that Jerry shares. Let's have a good, clean debate.

Note, Richard Dawkins refuses to even debate with creationists because the very act of debating with them gives them far more credit than they deserve!

My Response to the Argument That Atheism is a Faith

This argument is used a lot and it baffles me how non-atheists think they get to define what atheism is when they know next to nothing about it.

Faith, according to the dictionary, is the act of believing something which has no evidence.

If it takes faith to not believe in god, then it also takes faith to not believe the sky is orange. You don't believe the sky is orange. There is no evidence that the sky is orange. Since you don't believe the sky is orange and there is no evidence that the sky is orange, then I could accuse you of having faith that the sky is not orange.

Stupid right? The same applies to atheism.

There have been hundreds if not thousands of different gods worshipped by humans in recorded history. How much faith does it take for you to NOT believe in all of those? Ra was the Egyptian sun god. Zeus was the king of the Greek gods.

I would be willing to wager that it doesn't take any faith... Just as it doesn't take any faith to not believe in the Christian god.

We now view the ancient Greek religion as mythology. But it was as real to them as the Christian god is to you!

The fighting atheist said it best: "Claiming that atheism is a faith is like claiming that NOT collecting stamps is a hobby or that NOT smoking is a habit."

Atheists don't try to define what Christianity is. Why do Christians think they have to define atheism? Either way, it's another weak argument that is easily debunked.

Godless Billboard In Utah

http://www.reasonutah.org/

Apparently, billboards such as these are popping up all over the nation. And those who do believe in god are doing what believers do best, the most un-Christian like thing possible: Death threats.

What are believers so threatened by? It is okay for them to put up their billboards threatening the whole world that they are going to hell if you believe in the wrong Jesus or go to the wrong church. They are free to publically express their opinions. Why can't atheists do the same without our lives being threatened? Atheists don't threaten believers when they post their crap, even though some of their billboards can be outright offensive.

"We want everybody to know we’re coming together as people who are atheists, agnostic or freethinking and open to discussing ideas," said Elaine Ball, director of the Utah Coalition of Reason. "We’re not trying to convert or de-convert people. We hope people will discover that we [atheists] are a legitimate part of the community."

The billboard was supposed to only be up until September 19, but it was there when I drove past it just a few days ago. It is located on the north side of westbound highway 201 just past the 5600 west exit.

"The point of our ongoing nationwide awareness campaign is to reach out to the millions of atheists and agnostics living in the United States," explained Fred Edwords, national director of the United Coalition of Reason. "Such non-theists sometimes don't realize there's a community for them because they're inundated with religious messages at every turn. We hope our effort will serve as a beacon and let them know they aren't alone. Being visible is important to us, because atheists and agnostics in our society often don't know many people of like mind. Furthermore, if traditionally religious people can be open about their views, why shouldn't we be open about ours?"

Great question! If religious people can shout their message in public, all over TV, and on everyones front porch, why can't we have one stinking billboard?

Only religion can make good people do horrible things...

My Experience In A Non-Mormon Christian Gathering

I'm sorry I've been away for so long. I can't believe it's been over a month since my last post (and all I did was post a picture of a naked girl on a pumpkin). I had to go out of town for a few weeks for a wedding and a much needed vacation.

I had an interesting religious experience while I was away and it was a very positive one...

I went to witness a wedding (the kind that everyone is allowed to attend). It was in an Episcopal church. Prior to the wedding, I visited the church on a Sunday and sat in their service. Boy oh boy was it different from a Mormon sacrament meeting!

First, there was an actual band and they played fun, upbeat music.

The service was strange. All they did was read from a pamphlet and every once in a while the congregation would say stuff together. Sometimes we had to stand up, sometimes kneel.

The most interesting part, however, was that this happened to be the one Sunday each year where they talk about money and donations. But it was anything than what I expected. The preacher simply asked the audience members to please pay the amounts that they had pledged because they make their plans and budget based upon what people pledge. They talked about money for maybe two minutes and that was it.

So damn different from Mormonism! The members weren't being guilt-tripped or promised huge blessings for paying. It wasn't preached for hours and hours. It was a simple and humble reminder to those who hadn't paid what they had pledged. That's it! They did pass the collection tray once.

Although I am still an atheist, I was very impressed. Their focus was actually on god, whereas Mormons focus on tithing, strict obedience, Joseph Smith, and missionary work.

After the service, the preacher stood at the door and greeted everyone as they left. The preacher was a kind, charismatic, and very sincere man. He didn't want to interview me to determine my worthiness. He didn't assign missionaries to manipulate me into joining.

When it came time for the wedding, he memorized all the guests' names and where they were from. I was very impressed with this man. I intend to write him a letter and let him know.

While I was driving home, I thought up a funny joke (at least I think it's funny).

What is it called when President Monson takes a dump?

Holy Shit!

Happy Halloween!

Happy Halloween Everyone!

We Have A Tendencey to Blame "The Church" For Lying To Us - By Thayne Andersen

Thoughts that bother me about myself and others who have cut or change the umbilical cord connection with the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints

Thought: We have a tendency to blame "The Church" for lying to us.

When we went to church and heard the lessons say that Noah was a great prophet we were lied to because there was no such prophet! He didn't exist. We were told a fairy tale and believed it (at least for a while). Do we blame Walt Disney for telling us about Santa Clause or Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer? No way! But we blame "The Church" for the anti-science claims right and left. But we tend to be irritated that the "Church" lied to us!

When we were told that Adam fell from grace after disobeying God, we were told a lie! What did we expect the church manuals to tell us? The same is true of Joseph Smith and other LDS prophets.

When we were told that Mary was a virgin, yet gave birth to a child who was part man and part God, we were lied to! Again, what did we expect them to say when we went to Sunday School? When you go to a carnival, you get carnival food -- not REAL food -- no way! When you pay a preacher (or a church or ward) to make you feel good (I call it a religious orgasm), you get what you pay for -- a story that makes you feel good inside -- and makes enough sense to help your continued activity. Never mind if it is "true" or "real". If you go to a fortune-teller, what do you want them to tell you? That they are all just entertainers and charlatans? No way! You are begging to be taken down the "feel good" road.

The LDS speakers know that you are NOT looking for truth, but for a way to feel good -- so they give you what you are seeking for and hoping to be true. What is wrong with that? I think one of the prophets even cautioned against telling the bare honest-to-goodness truth IF IT DOES NOT HELP A TESTIMONY AND INSPIRE MEMBERS.

Yet a lot of Ex-Mormons somehow "blame" the Corporation of the First Presidency of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints for repeating the things that a sane person would have to admit were pretty obvious misrepresentations of fact. Horses in America! Swords and bows of steel that were strong enough to behead an enemy -- before such technology was invented! The use of the wheel by Indians (lets call them Nephites) before the wheel was invented. The sun stopping in the sky. Etc. Etc.

I was an alcohol and drug abuse counselor most my professional life. I have heard a LOT of excuses for drunkenness and intoxication (literally thousands of excuses). But I have NEVER heard a man dying of liver failure complain that the bartender he went to to buy alcohol was actually to blame because he gave him what he went to the bar or store and paid to get -- ALCOHOL! He went to the bar to get alcohol and got it. The man seeking salvation did the same thing by going to a minister (bishop or missionary) to feel good about mortality, pain and suffering -- and where you are going after you die.

I was present a couple weeks ago when one LDS man (who I admire and respect to this day) gave the story of a man who disappeared in Vietnam during the war there. He obviously died during a military mission. The family was heart-broken and failed to find closure in their grief and sorrow. No body was to be found. No remains would ever go back home to America. They wanted and needed hope and an explanation that would help. So they went to their LDS leaders for help. He told them that no reason is more comforting than to tell them that "God needed their relative more than we did, so he was called home." They found comfort and satisfaction in this remark and left feeling better.

Now, if they had gone to me or other atheist, I would have had to tell them the truth -- that death is simply a part of life and that is that. They will never see their relative again. I consider my answer and explanation more accurate and truthful -- but less comforting to those who WANT comfort. When you pay the piper for music, you can't complain too much if you had really WANTED food instead of music. What slot do you drop your quarter into?

I think the same is true of most church teachings -- especially fundamentalist churches. I stayed in the LDS church for decades because what I WANTED was a feeling of community, a feeling of purpose and potential salvation. I only realized as I neared retirement that NOW I want the truth! It wasn't the fault of the LDS church leaders that they gave me what I wanted most my life -- and paid for.

When I finally got up the courage to make changes to my status with the church, I have to take the full responsibility for staying so long in the church and for all the religious stuff (crap) related to that fact. I can't properly blame the church if they try to ostracize me. It was my decision to stay so long. It was no one else's fault. They can't continue to provide hope and faith if they also accept the fact of earth's origins -- and eventual destiny as most likely being consumed by our dying sun.

So, I would advise others to stop blaming the (LDS) church for your bad experiences and get on with living your life. You can live a bitter, angry situation, or you can forgive yourself for being given what you paid for when you were active in the church.

Similarly, how can I argue "truth" with members of any fundamentalist church when there is a good chance that they "REALLY" don't want or are not ready for truth just yet. They just might very validly and badly NEED personal hope and inspiration that truth might make pretty difficult to obtain.

Thayne Andersen
http://www.skepticalthayne.com/

Operation: Street Preachers

Nobody likes it when extreme religionists preach their condescending doctrine on street corners. It's about time that someone stood up to them and gave them a taste of their own medicine...

http://www.youtube.com/user/religiousantagonist You can see more awesome videos here!